Dilek Addressing Iffy Signal’s Legend Vs. Equinox Video

[mh9162013]

21 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I guess in a way you get used to what you don't have so Legend users that switch from the Nox over time won't even notice they don't have the iron bias functionality, you never know what you've missed in the ground anyway.  New to Multi frequency users won't even know what the iron bias is or does so it makes no difference to them.   

My first car was a manual gearbox, I wanted it that way as I wanted to learn how to drive a manual.  In Australia they have two different drivers licenses, one for people who want to drive manuals and as a bonus they get a license for both anyway, and one for auto's only.  The perks to the manuals are obvious when you're a young chap wanting to get the most out of your car, as you age and mellow an auto becomes good enough and you tend to prefer autos for ease of use 😉  I've had an auto for a while now, I'd probably still prefer a manual but I'm used to it so don't care.

What Dilek is alluding to is their iron bias setting the Legend is locked into is the one they feel is best overall, the one that could be described as the default setting on the Nox, and for most people in most situations that is all they'll need.  In most cases it will help people find the most targets with minimal difficulties, the Automatic car.  

Some more advanced people may find benefits to having more control, the manual car and for those people at the moment the Legend might not be the right fit for due to this limitation.  What it comes down to is how big of the market are the manual car people they're not providing for?

One thing to note is iron bias only works on the Nox in multi frequency modes, perhaps the Legends multi frequency implementation doesn't have a way to benefit from the iron bias setting like the Nox does, could that be why there is the resistance to adding the feature?

We are now seeing fully automatic cars that even drive for you, if detectors get to that point I want one that digs for me as that's the part of detecting I enjoy the least 🙂 It better back fill the holes too.

I agree with you. It's the classic "adjustability versus simplicity" conundrum that engineers/designers often face.

I think one of the issues for N/M is that they painted themselves into a corner by all-but-declaring that the Legend is better than the Equinox. Yet they made the decision to give it an iron bias that worked like the Vanquish 340 or 440. Heck, even the 540 had iron bias adjustability (high and low).

[CPT_GhostLight]

4 hours ago, phrunt said:

Some more advanced people may find benefits to having more control, the manual car and for those people at the moment the Legend might not be the right fit for due to this limitation.  What it comes down to is how big of the market are the manual car people they're not providing for?

One thing to note is iron bias only works on the Nox in multi frequency modes, perhaps the Legends multi frequency implementation doesn't have a way to benefit from the iron bias setting like the Nox does, could that be why there is the resistance to adding the feature?

I feel like an advanced detector should allow advanced user control. It's probably cheaper and easier to make a less complex detector and it's very likely the automatic buyer market is much larger than the advanced user market. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that because we need good affordable intermediate SMF detectors too.

The Deus II and Exquinox have great stock programs that anyone can use to detect until they get advanced enough to take it to the next level with more advanced user controls, and the Atrex Basic and Advanced firmware modes that Simon pointed out is absolutely brilliant. Maybe all detector manufacturers should adopt that idea.

[Nokta Detectors]

Hello all.... 

No need for all this speculation.

This is what we announced today: 

''Dear Valued Members,

This is to confirm that, based on the amount of messages we got from end users after the live reveal yesterday asking for an Iron Bias setting, our engineers have started working on it already and we have decided to make the update available as soon as the engineers are done.
Customers will be able to easily update their units on PC or Mac platforms.

THANK YOU!''

Now, just want to add something as Dilek Gonulay and not as a rep of Nokta Makro:

Honesty has been my number one value since I was a kid. My dad, who had almost no education but whom I looked up to and always felt proud of, one day said: ''You live this life with integrity, if you cannot live with integrity, you die with integrity!''

So even if the words are not typed in the whole discussion, implying that I was lying is not something I can simply ignore. 

Whether it is my personal life or work, I try my best to be honest and transparent. If I will not say the truth, I do not talk, if I speak, you will hear facts. But I have come to a point to realize that no matter what I say, there are people out there who will always have a skeptical approach...maybe those people just have too much time on their hand and enjoy the whole drama…or some are having a hard time believing that there are still honest people out there in today’s world. Regardless of what their reasoning is, maybe interacting with end users so much and being so transparent is something I should re-consider for the future although I always feel like I owe it to those who do trust me & the company and appreciate it.

If you have any questions about the Legend, you can send me an email at dilek.gonulay@noktadetectors.com and I will gladly respond.

 

[Nokta Detectors]

If you ask our engineers today, they still do not want to include it. AND I am sorry to say this but among all the experienced detectorists I talk to, literally NONE use it. We wanted to roll the product and decide based on cutomers feedbacks because  Iffy was THE ONLY tester who insisted on it along with another one... all the rest (and we had 19 total) said not necessary. 

We always go with what the majority wants.... now that the end users are pushing with messages and emails after yesterday's video, we will do it. For us, it is all about what the customers want. 

 

[George Kinsey]

It is my believe the field tester should have shared his findings first with the OEM. Since the OEM has always been praised as a company who listens and acts on concerns of their customers. 

Having the ability to update a detector is why I have confidence this will be addressed.

[F350Platinum]

I didn't use iron bias on my Equinox 600 for a long time, but evolved to using it always. I now dig far less iron than I used to, and make sure to prove that to myself when out hunting. I start with a low setting and increase it, or just randomly dig signals I interpret as false. F2 at 3 on the 600 with the 10x5 Coiltek is a killer. It has not failed me that I know of.

Iron Bias, now that I get the feel of it is obviously not a be all and end all, but in my "paradise" where the diggin' is easy is a great help.

I totally understand why engineers would be reluctant to include it but in the end giving users a choice is good strategy and good will. 👍

[Nokta Detectors]

Why we did not want to include it in the beginning is explained by a very experienced detectorist at the link  below and I will leave it here. 

 

[Tahts-a-dats-ago]

With some (people) NM is in a damned if they do, and damned if they don't situation. I've seen a number of people state that they won't buy the Legend because it didn't have an iron bias setting, but now that NM is doing an update that will add that feature.....  

Not one person has stated they've had a change in opinion (and will now buy the Legend) but several can't seem to get over the fact that their demand has been granted.

To me the really odd thing in all of this "uproar" is the fact that every metal detector made has parameters (from the engineers) that are not user adjustable. That includes Minelab's general hobby machines. Those parameters were chosen by design - with the intention of providing the optimum performance for a general use machine. Naturally those parameters (chosen) won't be optimum in all situations, but we don't see a bunch of complaints with regards to the algorithms, frequency bias, etc.. chosen by Minelab's engineers. Presumably most users accept the fact that the engineers know more about the subject than the average user does.

To my knowledge Minelab has offered several updates for the Equinox, with the potential being fairly likely that there will be future updates too. Despite that I have yet to read a comment about having to buy the Equinox and hoping Minelab will someday make it better with an update. The same goes with XP and their flagship machines.

I know of a number of machines that are quite good at separating good targets in a bed of iron trash. To my knowledge the only machines that featured an adjustable iron bias setting are a few Minelab models - and it seems that those who are most adamant about an iron bias setting on the Legend are Minelab users. Maybe that's just a coincidence, or maybe it isn't. I do find it a bit amusing that some of the same people who proclaimed the Legend to be a copy of the Equinox, are now demanding an Equinox feature on the Legend.

It does seem as though some Legend naysayers aren't really interested in the Legend itself, or making the Legend a better machine, as much as they are interested in picking the Legend (and Dilek) apart.

The good news is that NM is once again delivering what the people have asked for. That should be commended, not ridiculed and demeaned via questions designed to imply a belief that Dilek/NM is less than honest.

[BobC]

Andy has written many books on different detectors, not sure why he wold not chime in and sat the iron bias should be user adjustable. Regardless of what detector I'm using I think I should be able to set discrimination, iron bias levels. With my nox I change them as to the site I am on, on many targets, Deus included, if I did not dig the trash, the targets would not have been found, just wish I could reject sprinkler heads

[EL NINO77]

I was a little surprised by Andy Sabish's statement ... about the need /not need.... to set the Iron Bias filter ... because it's a very important setting for many detector manufacturers. Whites bottle cap reject,, Minelab- Iron bias, Rutus  -iron masking, XP -silencer-, ... even at Deus -is called silencer ...

We can argue about the advantages or disadvantages of low or high Iron Bias filter settings ...
.- however, there is no doubt that the Iron bias setting has a significant effect on the unmasking of good signals in iron..with low settings ... as well as the elimination of false signals from iron at high iron bias settings ...