Deus 2 Vs Manticore. Relic Hunting In Hot Dirt.

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

Unlike the Equinox's Iron Bias, with the Manticore the user can select regions of the Conductive scale to increase, decrease, or eliminate ferrous response.  This is the case for both the above central axis region ('nail region' -- not official ML terminology) and independently below the central axis ('sheet metal region' -- again not official language).

So if the intended target (lead bullet of certain size and shape in this case) falls above the central axis due to mineralization, the customization allows for opening up that region to high tones but still keeping other regions grayed out.

Most of the videos seem to show the upper grayed out region simply uniformly grayed (i.e. rectangle with base all across the screen from left to right) while showing the lower part with varied graying , with varying heights -- kind of like teeth on a not so perfect mouth.  😁  But the upper region can be configured similarly to the lower region.

You’re right, Chuck.  You just have to “lower” the upper ferrous limits around the TIDs of interest (i.e., where the bullets show up and/or buttons, and/or nickels etc.).  That is the bandaid or permanent fix if ML can’t figure out how to make deeper pure non-ferrous targets show up on the centerline in hot dirt.

[GB_Amateur]

3 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

You just have to “lower” the upper ferrous limits around the TIDs of interest (i.e., where the bullets show up and/or buttons, and/or nickels etc.).

Each zone (upper and lower) has five regions whose locations and widths can be set.  For example, you could have three upper zones 'out' (grayed) to a high degree and two 'in' (completely white), one for bullets and one for buttons, assuming those targets have fairly narrow conductive VDI's.

[Daniel Tn]

Yep, that's what I meant by you'd have to run an open screen to hear them.  There's a lot to unbox with the Manticore settings for customization.  They made most everything simple and straightforward for people that like turn on and hunt but with enough room for tweakers too.  So yes it is possible to open that area up...but at the same time you're gonna let in iron too that falls in that block.  

[Rick N. MI]

Do you have any reason to keep the Manticore when you have the Deus 2? It just seems Minelab didn't get the Manticore quite right. I doubt they will change things on the Manticore.

[Daniel Tn]

33 minutes ago, Rick N. MI said:

Do you have any reason to keep the Manticore when you have the Deus 2? It just seems Minelab didn't get the Manticore quite right. I doubt they will change things on the Manticore.

That's a good question.  Neither one are perfect but each one has things I like about them vs the other...BUT neither one has that edge that makes it a TKO over the other.  If I had to pick one to sell today it would be the Manticore but that's because I could sell it fast and get more for it vs the Deus 2 due to the availability of them. I could always get another one when they become more available down the road. I've actually been thinking on doing just that. I've got a big week long trout fishing trip coming up in a few weeks in Arkansas and extra $ wouldn't be a bad idea. *hint hint for those looking for a Manicore*.  

[Steve Herschbach]

9 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

 Interesting.  Shows that soil mineralization can potentially push pure non-ferrous at depth into the ferrous limit regions (depending on the profile) such that ferrous limits will potentially mask keepers.  This can also potentially happen with the Nox and too much iron bias.

It happens with all VLF discriminating detectors in mineralized ground. The only difference is the depth at which it occurs.

[mn90403]

4 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

It happens with all VLF discriminating detectors in mineralized ground. The only difference is the depth at which it occurs.

As I recently noted with using a 6" coil on the beach with the Equinox 800 the screen will show negative numbers for good, non-ferrous targets that will show as good targets with a larger coil.  

Steve alerted us to this anomaly years ago to be clear.  

[phrunt]

Anyone who looks for tiny gold knows it, the tiny targets exaggerate the problem so it becomes more obvious, however it translates over to larger targets too.

Some detectors do it much sooner than others, such as the Simplex, others you can make it happen by lowering sensitivity.

It doesn't even take all that mineralised ground.  While I haven't used the Deus 2 the Deus 1 is really bad for it for me and is a real dig it all detector because of it.

[strick]

10 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Thanks.  Interesting.  Shows that soil mineralization can potentially push pure non-ferrous at depth into the ferrous limit regions (depending on the profile) such that ferrous limits will potentially mask keepers.  

 

It doesn't just happen with soil mineralization it happens with with ferrous junk as well. I posted this back in December when I first got my Manticore. My second post from the top comparing a gold ring in close proximity to  a bottle cap. Note that both the bottle cap and the gold ring are pushed up ward in the photo. 

 

[Steve Herschbach]

12 hours ago, phrunt said:

Anyone who looks for tiny gold knows it, the tiny targets exaggerate the problem so it becomes more obvious, however it translates over to larger targets too.

Some detectors do it much sooner than others, such as the Simplex, others you can make it happen by lowering sensitivity.

It doesn't even take all that mineralised ground.  While I haven't used the Deus 2 the Deus 1 is really bad for it for me and is a real dig it all detector because of it.

I don’t think of it in terms of large target or tiny target. It’s simply weak targets. We all know a coin at depth makes a very weak signal, just like a smaller but shallower target. The non-ferrous signal gets weaker with depth, and the ground mineral signal grows as a percentage of the total signal. At some point you get enough signal to still detect the target, but there is no longer enough left to make it read non-ferrous. The ground predominates, and it flips to ferrous. Since I’ve been giving XP a hard time in this thread I’ll say the reason I got a Deus 2 was that I saw it hold an accurate non-ferrous signal at substantially deeper depth in extreme ground than my Equinox 800.

But either tiny targets, or large targets at depth with the same signal as a tiny target, flip to ferrous at some point. Lots of people leave great targets in the ground because their detector says it is ferrous when it is not. This is gold nugget detecting 101, but applies just as much to coins, relics, and jewelry.