Big Five Now The Big Four - First Texas No Longer A Player?

[geof_junk]

The coil supply for the earlier ML detectors is mainly due to Nuggetfinder, Coiltec, and others. I wanted to get a third ML detector as a spare and alternative setup for Carol and myself. ML missed out on the sale because I did not want their compulsory standard coil as we already had 2 of them that were never used.     I guess if they had a chip in them I could of sold them for it. 😉 

[phrunt]

I just hope this chips thing comes back to bite them when the competition heats up, Garrett going chip free on the Axiom, Nokta hinting at comjng to market with a PI and Fisher and their slow Impulse Gold release we will have to wait and see.

I think it's rather obvious X-coils forced their hand on the 6000 by showijng their coils running on it not very long at all after its release.  When have they let the aftermarket make coils for a chipped detector so soon after release?  I think they forced their hand with the GPZ too finally allowing NF to make coils for it although heavily delayed.

[rled2005]

On 7/11/2023 at 2:53 PM, Digalicious said:

I didn't see Micronta in that first list! 😁

I'm only half serious about that emoji, because I wonder if the Micronta detectors actually outsold some, or even all the companies in that first list. More specifically, the exposure of those Micronta detectors was massive, considering they were in every Radio Shack store and catalogue. Add to that the very low cost, and they probably sold a s--t ton of them. Most of which were probably returned, or found a new home in the back of a closet lol.

Ya' never know. Micronta might make a comeback and be on Steve's next list 🤣



 

I bought a Micronta in the mid '80's, I took it back the next day! It couldn't detect a dime at 1.5 inches. Then I bought a Tesoro and was happy for many years. ☺️ 

First Texas should drop the Teknetics and Bounty hunter lines altogether, Teknetics is just a redundancy to Fisher. They should vamp up the research on some new Fisher model types and capabilities, plus drop the "First Texas" name in favor of Fisher Research. Just MHO.

[Hobo]

On 7/12/2023 at 7:33 AM, adamBomb said:

I can't figure Fisher out. High level, the CZ line is going down or dead. The tech is old and outdated. I'm not sure what they are doing with the AQ. Their website hasn't been updated in years.

On the low end, I think bounty hunter is profitable and making them a lot of $. Amazon says 3k+ bounty hunter tracker IVs sold in last month alone.

But fisher needs to do something. They should have improved the CZ line when minelab came out with the CTX then equinox but they did nothing. CZ's were awesome. I had the CZ21. Beast of the machine that was just as good as my Excal and was indestructible...heavy too

Too heavy too.

[Badger-NH]

The CZ20/21 was designed for diving. Awesome performance in salty wet sand but heavy and awkward for beach hunting.  I don't understand why they never made a lightweight beach version. That's where the money is.

[jasong]

On 7/20/2023 at 12:30 AM, dig4gold said:

The Minelab posts were most likely the number of disgruntled buyers of the GPX 6000 & its issues & Minelabs total lack of engaging.

D4G

Gadgetry/mods generates a lot of discussion too. The main gold section is a heck of a lot more active when there are interesting things to use and test out. I'd say there were probably 10 times more X Coils posts than 6000 issues posts, with all the consistent releases they did. Starting with the coils themselves, then moving to spiral windings, then releasing the supposedly impossible smaller coils like the 8", then moving to concentrics and all the different sizes of those. There was just a ton to test out, compare, show finds with, and talk about.

The 6000 is frankly a very boring detector to discuss once you move past it's problems, hence the focus of discussion largely centering around it's issues and not much else. 

Another data point that shows Minelab really doesn't care about it's customers, they actively suppress the sorts of stuff that tend to form communities in other product sectors, it's all about $ and nothing else. And it shoots itself in the foot because of it, creates needless negative feedback, and makes some people dislike them instead of generating fans. 

[TC-AZ]

On 7/11/2023 at 4:46 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

I said U.S. perspective. Certainly might be different elsewhere, with brands not even mentioned being premier in other markets. And I’m talking about what is selling new, not what people are using per se. There are still people using White’s but they are a part of the past and not what will drive the technology forward.

Based on total sales worldwide Garrett is still a major brand, even if they are missing from some local markets. They sell far more in Europe than you might think. Still, I’m curious. So in the UK what brand would you put in Garrett’s place? Minelab, Nokta, XP, and ?????

I agree with Steve. What will get us (White's users) moving forward in the new technology? It totally depends on YOU. I hear, talk and read how we will use our detectors until the day we die. It seems that it is driven by a new generation of detectorist's. We older guys and gals get into a comfort zone where we are happy and don't like change.

I am 65 and still willing to learn new things especially detectors. in my local club there are some that still have flip phones and can't or won't even text. And some members that don't want to bother with email so they want for you to call or mail the newsletter.  TC-AZ 

[Jeff Kelley]

On 7/13/2023 at 2:16 PM, Mirda said:

V3i was introduced in 2009, so it had to be in development a few years before. It also means, that there is probably nobody around, that knows the current code. It was made with coding language and tools available at that time. They are very probably not updated anymore -> they would need to completely rewrite whole codebase to be able to use modern processors and development tools. If there are routines in a very low language, like assembler, there is not many people able to decipher it.

The V3i was in development for about five years before release.  The bulk of it was written in C++ and would be compatible with modern processors, compilers, and development systems.   The issues would be with hardware that has gone obsolete along with the opportunities that new technology provides that you just would not want to miss in a new machine.

For example, the processor has built-in hardware acceleration for a filter but you cannot find that anymore.  Could do that in software because processors are much faster now.   Higher resolution displays are now available – would not want to pass that opportunity by.   The system is split with analog and audio in the battery box and the main processor in the pod – would want to fix that.  Wireless audio is another area where technology has grown enough to suggest a redo.  The V3i has some ground tracking that could be improved and detecting in harsh ground runs into limits.  Steve found a noise issue somewhere in Alaska that was never figured out.  So, some improvements in performance would also need to be addressed.

You could patch up each of these things in turn and ship something, but I would certainly start over.  And if the original developers would start over, it is pretty certain that Garrett would make a fresh start if they wanted to do something similar.  The value is within some of the techniques which are still applicable and combining them with more modern practices.

The developers for the V3i are not employed by Garett.   John Plautz has passed on, Anne Kelley is not working on detectors, Carl is at First Texas, and I followed him there.  Garrett has a design purchased that they can work with to figure it out, but First Texas has access to the designers. 

Either company could resurrect the V3i.  The question is if they would want to.  How many customers want to be empowered with many settings and how many would be intimidated?  This makes it a niche market within a niche market. 

What I would be interested in knowing is what features of the V3i would make it relevant today?  Would it truly be the best VLF in Garrett’s lineup?  Does it beat the Equinox and Legend?  Certainly nice to be hearing, but is this true?   What is the good, bad, or ugly about it?

[Steve Herschbach]

14 hours ago, Jeff Kelley said:

What I would be interested in knowing is what features of the V3i would make it relevant today?  Would it truly be the best VLF in Garrett’s lineup?  Does it beat the Equinox and Legend?  Certainly nice to be hearing, but is this true?   What is the good, bad, or ugly about it?

Hi Jeff, thanks for stopping in! In case people do not know Jeff was a key player in the V3i - like really key.

The V3i was Equinox before Equinox, and I tried to get White’s to understand what they had on their hands. I in fact pretty much described the Equinox by asking that a V3i be reimagined in a simplified pod on rod configuration.

The part I miss most is that gorgeous Spectra display, far better than anything Minelab has done in my opinion. Keeping the key ability to customize the display for single and multiple frequency would be good. What could be lost are a lot of settings tweaks and interactions that go way over the head of a lot of people. Ground balance needed improvement. But mainly as far as tuning just stick with the standard stuff.

I kind of wish I’d have kept my last V3i but after going back and forth several times decided the DFX gets along better with my Bigfoot coil. The DFX also fills a role with me as a machine that is not so hyped up bloody sensitive to tiny foil and other minuscule trash like many of the modern machines with their jacked up gain.

Again, thanks for your commentary.

[TampaBayBrad]

On 8/1/2023 at 7:19 AM, Badger-NH said:

The CZ20/21 was designed for diving. Awesome performance in salty wet sand but heavy and awkward for beach hunting.  I don't understand why they never made a lightweight beach version. That's where the money is.

I belt mounted mine which made it VERY light. 😁