Ferrite Ring 8 Years Later

[cudamark]

2 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Miscommunication between Aussies and Yanks is legendary, and not to be taken seriously.  

What's the expression......Two countries separated by a common language? 😄

[Steve Herschbach]

JP gave me grief over my pronunciation of aluminum, but it actually is spelled differently in Australia, and they pronounce the extra vowel - aluminium 

[flakmagnet]

On 8/8/2022 at 7:40 AM, Rob Allison said:

** Something Important to Customers - The ferrite rings are super fragile, many have just tossed them down on the ground and shattered them.  It's best if you place them gently on the ground, "don't toss" them or there is a high change of it breaking into pieces.  Some have covered them in various material to protect them, even electrical tape. 

I just wrapped mine in small bubble wrap…a couple of wraps. I toss it on the ground even when there are rocks. It's never given a hint of breaking. Try it, you might be surprised.

And yes, I use a ring...

[Jonathan Porter]

There is a lot going on here, some of it I am sensitive to but am clueless to the cause and other parts I am just totally blind. I have gone back and added emoticons to my original tongue in cheek comments in the hopes this lightens the mood somewhat whilst still retaining the message and bring it more inline with how I originally intended it.

I would like to acknowledge how appreciative I am of the words of support shown here by some of the very people I might have offended in my attempts at passing on knowledge through the filter of passion. I know I get it wrong a lot, I have a gift for words but sometimes the passion of my emotions creeps into those words and I blast right over the people I want to share that passion with.

In this case I too strongly worded my thoughts because I was impassioned by what I felt was public ridicule over a VERY important (to me) process so I took the gloves off and gave back in the style the ridicule was delivered, I tried to be funny but I went too far. Way to far! I see that now. Once the passion had passed and I saw the reaction from people who I admire having to come to the defence of those who don’t have the gift of words I felt chagrined. 😔 

Those people are highly experienced individuals who deserve my respect and at the very least, at the very least, deserve my making an attempt to word things in a way that is not all high and lofty. I would like to acknowledge the often silent readers of this forum who have a wealth of experience and success who do not post very often but to whom I often offend, to them I unreservedly apologise for not being more considerate. 

I have pondered the X balance/calibration subject more in the hopes of simplifying the message I want to deliver on its importance. The following is what I have come up with in the hopes we can move away from the subject being a location based thing and more a GPZ7000 ZVT thing.

• Stop thinking about X calibration in relation to what ground you are working or where in the world that is.
• Think of the Ferrite as a calibration tool that shows the GPZ7000 a reliable X signal no matter where in the world you are.
• Think of the control box temperature at the time of detecting as being the determinant for the X calibration.
• If the control box X calibration is inaccurate then the detector will make a signal on the Ferrite and any X signal in the ground, if present.
• If there is no signal or minimal signal on the Ferrite then the calibration is correct.
• If Semi-Auto or Manual mode is used the Calibration is locked good or bad.
• If Quick-Trak is triggered then the calibration is actively tracking X and G, a Ferrite should be present for best results.
• If using Auto mode the algorithm is actively trying to Track G and X from whatever signal is being presented to the coil, if salt/conductive signals or saturation signals are present they can confuse the algorithm.

Lastly ZVT means Zero Voltage Transmission, this means the design requires Zero variation in the transmit voltage for the whole thing to work, however no electronics are perfect and no two coils are exactly the same hence the need for the user to calibrate.

Each coil is slightly different so will require a slightly different Ferrite calibration, no two electronics are exactly the same also so the temperature of the electronics will ever so slightly change the calibration position from cold start to warm, as such ML cannot set a perfect calibration from the factory so the end user is required to perform that task for maximum performance, either through the use of Quick-Trak and Auto mode and the octopus wiggle recommended method or the same method in combination with the Ferrite, or Semi-Auto and the use of the Ferrite (my personal recommendation).

Hope this goes some way to explaining my position and also make amends for some of the misunderstandings.

JP

[Jonathan Porter]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscous_remanent_magnetization

Bit of light reading for you Jen. In the case of the 7000 as described in my post above X can become an issue due to slight variations in ZVT, with slight differences in temperature, electronic differences or coil differences making it hard to calibrate at factory. PIs are not overly affected due to pulse not a constant Tx like ZVT but can still have issues in saturable places. Where VRM is extreme the G balance can compensate for some of it but not all. I’m no expert BTW and only have a basic understanding.  

https://www.minelab.com/__files/f/254716/KBA 24-1 Basics of the GPZ 7000 Technology Zero Voltage Transmission (ZVT).pdf

This article is more focussed and relevant to ML detectors especially the comments about ground balancing and reactive soil component. 

[phrunt]

On 8/10/2022 at 8:12 AM, Northeast said:

Obviously this is all related to the 7000.  Does X signal affect a GPX of any model?  Is there any auto calibration happening in a GPX 6000?  
 

Can the GPX 6000 balance both 'G' and 'X' the same as GPZ 7000 does?

The GPX 6000 does not track the Ferrite component of the ground. GeoSense-PI uses other techniques to remove the 'X' response that is invisible to the operator.
You do not need a yellow ferrite to ground balance the GPX 6000.

From the Minelab website.

[BrokeInBendigo]

On 8/14/2022 at 3:43 AM, cudamark said:

Yes, confusion abounds when you start talking American to an Aussie or Kiwi. Order biscuits and gravy in a restaurant and see what looks you get! Getting pissed has a whole different meeting, not to mention the word fanny! 😆

A major lesson learned after moving to Australia is that friends here use words that, in the states, you don’t even use for enemies (much less suitable for this forum). JP’s post was actually quite warm and fluffy relative to the usual vernacular. 

[geof_junk]

we are a weird mob here. The steering wheel is on the right side of the car and the cars have boots and bonnets, we don't put our luggage in the front of the car like Germans do (VW) or use a petrol tank as a rear bumper bar likes the USA do (Ford Pinto). The blood goes to our brain as we are upside down, not like those northerner they have the flood draining from their brain down to the feet. To get back to gold beware if you find gold near an eucalyptus forest Aussies might take you into Drop Bear country or feed you a deadly vegemite sandwich. You have been warned.

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