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Rob Allison

My Thoughts On The X Coil

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2 minutes ago, flakmagnet said:

But why would would someone want to pay  $3750 for essentially a smaller coil? I guess that's considered "good business" but I don't necessarily agree.

Totally agree, and if I only had a 7000 I may have well looked at a smaller coil. But I have an SDC so really have no need for a smaller coil but do need/want a bigger coil for my Z.

The SDC compliments the Z like a finger in a bum so can fully appreciate the need for a smaller coil for thosewho only have or want one machine.

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To me the SDC is just a tool for bad ground. It doesn't really shine over the GPZ in any aspect I can see other than ultra dinks and gnarly ground. And it looks to me like the 10" X Coil is going to outshine it there too now.

The SDC reminds me of a backhoe - ok at a lot of things but not the best at many. The GPZ/GB2(or GM1000) combo is like a mini excavator/skid steer combo - way better and more efficient at the widest possible range of things.

If I was just starting detecting I'd probably be tempted to start with an SDC (and regret it just like I regret going with a backhoe instead of a miniex/skidsteer instead). But to expect people who already own a GPZ to go buy one is a really stupid business decision that sounds like it was made by accountants and not detectorists.

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1 hour ago, Rob Allison said:

The money to justify another coil to find smaller gold, smaller than what the stock 14x13 can find, in my opinion is not worth it.  I have seen several threads of guys with a smaller X-coil that are now finding dinks.  

My overall mentality is, do I want to go back to old spots and find 1-2 grams of dinks hunting all day, or just concentrate my effort going forward exploring new ground in hopes for more sizable gold. 

Don't you own or have leased a big portion of Rich Hill along with some gated land that prevents access (or at least the ability to get to close enough to hike) to open public land behind it? I mean, if I'm thinking of the right guy, that's a massive advantage that allows one to essentially ignore dinks if they want and go exploring places none of us can really get to.

For some of us dinks are 95% of what we find and ignoring them is not an option. Starting from zero with no family or inside info might provide a different perspective. To me, every ounce of performance I can squeeze out of my equipment makes a massive difference between not being able to go prospecting at all and being able to afford to take time off work and make the long trip out to the goldfields.

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16 minutes ago, flakmagnet said:

But why would someone with a GPZ want to pay  $3750 for essentially a smaller coil? I guess that's considered "good business" but I don't necessarily agree.

I hardly use my SDC even though its been to Jenny Craig and lost almost half its original weight, has the 11" Coiltek Coil on it, but tis good to have for visitors to use plus it is there onboard just in case the Z fails.

Back to the thread, that risk involved making the patch cable for the X coil sucks big time, for me was something I accepted and that is what it is about if your not comfortable with doing this and experimenting with the X coils they are not for you as Rob, Steve and others have indicated with their thoughts.

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3 hours ago, jasong said:

To me the SDC is just a tool for bad ground. It doesn't really shine over the GPZ in any aspect I can see other than ultra dinks and gnarly ground. And it looks to me like the 10" X Coil is going to outshine it there too now.

The SDC reminds me of a backhoe - ok at a lot of things but not the best at many. The GPZ/GB2(or GM1000) combo is like a mini excavator/skid steer combo - way better and more efficient at the widest possible range of things.

If I was just starting detecting I'd probably be tempted to start with an SDC (and regret it just like I regret going with a backhoe instead of a miniex/skidsteer instead). But to expect people who already own a GPZ to go buy on is a really stupid business decision that sounds like it was made by accountants and not detectorists.

Probably different where you are Jasong just as with KiwiJw's ultra mild soil makes me drool with envy. I can only speak for where I am where the SDC is a huge compliment to the GPZ and I'd be much poorer without it. There are situations where the SDC outshines the Z.

One example, a tight patch about the size of a bus where the average depth of the nuggets was 26 inches and sitting on the cap. 17oz of chunky bits.

After every signal was removed with the Z in goes the SDC for another 3 or so ounces. Yep all tiny bits the Z couldn't here but 3 oz none the less. Many of the bits I would have thought the Z would have heard, but it wasn't the size of the bits..it was the make up or type of gold. Bits clearly heard on the SDC had to be rubbed on the Z coil to ellicit the faintest of response.

Still, if I didn't have an SDC I'd look at a smalled coil for the Z. But I have an SDC

 

edit: just to clarify, wasn't pulling nuggets with the SDC at 26 inches, dug the whole area out down to cap then used the SDC

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Yeah I detect a lot of places that are probably about equivalent to JW's soil so I guess maybe I'm biased. But a lot of people here in the US detect similarly mild soils almost exclusively too. I guess when I talk about products I usually am speaking in terms of the US since I'll never have the time or money to detect anywhere else so I it's rare for me to consider it. Same way I see very little consideration for US soils when I read Aussie forums. :biggrin:

I know what you are talking about though with gold that hits less deep on the GPZ. When it was first released I was finding very occasional nuggets like that and reported them to ML instead of the forums because at the time it would have caused arguments to say such a thing, even with video proof. I even found large ones, one was 24 grams, that hit a good 20% less deep on the GPZ than the 4500 w/17x13 Evo (some others were up to 50% deeper on the 4500). They were all oddballs though, like chewed up wads of tangled, ropey gum.

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3 hours ago, jasong said:

To me the SDC is just a tool for bad ground. It doesn't really shine over the GPZ in any aspect I can see other than ultra dinks and gnarly ground. And it looks to me like the 10" X Coil is going to outshine it there too now.

 

3 hours ago, jasong said:

The SDC reminds me of a backhoe - ok at a lot of things but not the best at many. The GPZ/GB2(or GM1000) combo is like a mini excavator/skid steer combo - way better and more efficient at the widest possible range of things.

 

? I can vouch a big fat yes in agreement to all that Jasong, in our insanely mild ground. Many of you will know my thoughts on the SDC in our insanely mild ground up against my 4500 & NF Sadie coil. The SDC just didn't shine for me. In bad ground (highly mineralised), maybe.The 10" X coil is just next level again. Getting smaller gold at crazy depths. Any gold is good gold to me & considering our gold is mostly small any way, why wouldn't I be happy being able to go back over my old grounds & glean more out of it. Especially in known "hot" spots. The enjoyment is still there in it for me. So why not?  Maybe again just in our insanely mild ground. But that is the only ground type I know. Lucky me I guess.

I always wanted a smaller coil for my Zed because I absolutely knew there was a lot of small gold & possibly bigger gold in areas I just couldn't get the ML 14" coil into. I bet we all have places like those. And it is proving to be.  But I just knew it was a no brainer. The X coils are even getting gold off ground the ML 14" wasnt out in open ground.  So when the opportunity came along I was all over it. No hesitation in chopping A ML coil to get the chip for the patch lead. Because I can still use that ML coil anyway by putting a plug back on to it. So not destroying or making the doner ML coil worthless or unuseable at all. So it doesn't become a throw away or sacrificial coil like people are thinking. I dont know why people keep pushing that point. It is false.

Obviously things can go wrong with making the patch lead, as some have found out, but they shouldn't if all is followed to the letter. We may think it is easy to do but if in doubt get it done by a professional in that field. 

Good luck out there

JW ? 

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I must have the best SDC on the planet!  I love it!  My first piece ever found was a 1/4ozT nugget about 14” deep!  I knew I loved this machine even more when I went to  Gold basin Arizona and found a 2.5 g piece of moss “sponge” gold and my two buddies running 4500’s wouldn’t even register on it (at depth and out of the hole).  I found 5 pieces that day to their 0.   I have dug pieces at 2” that don’t register on the scale to multi-gramers at depths of 8”.  This is my go to machine first, before the Zed.   I have actually found more gold with it than the Z.   Now granted if I was in wide open spaces down in the Nevada or Arizona desert I would use the Z.   Most of the time the targets will blast your ear off but like Jasong,  sometimes there’s just a faint repeatable that you just have to “imagine” into a nugget and dig.

Now granted i bought my SDC years before my Z, and almost sold it it to pay for the Z.  I’m really glad I didn’t!  I’m actually contemplating selling the Z now cause of lack of use and end up buying Coilteks for the desert.  The Z is just a little too big for the woods, now a 10” might change my mind or just delay the inevitable. Time will tell.

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I'm new to this game but I've quickly learnt what works for you is what's best for you but not necessarily for somebody else,  What is best for somebody else isn't necessarily what is best for me and that's where a lot of the conflict in metal detecting comes from. 

Same goes for detectors I guess. 

Just use what you want to and enjoy the hobby

?

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