Depth Issues After Software Updates

[Jeff McClendon]

Nokta sent you a properly working system control unit. You tested it with your coils and everything looks good, right? You put the same coils on your other two Legends and things are not good, right?. If the coils are good then your two Legend system control units are the issue.

Put all three system control units in one box and ship them to Andy O’Neal at the Nokta USA Repair Center and let him figure it out. Make Nokta fix it instead of you trying to make videos. Let Andy make a video.

I’ll send you the money for shipping.

Your purchase prices for your Legends included a little money for 3 year warranty coverage. Make Nokta honor that warranty.

[midalake]

On 10/25/2023 at 6:58 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

I am saddened by what I see being reported as depth issues after performing online available software updates for detectors like Deus 2, Equinox 600/800 and of course, everyones whipping post, the Legend.

Software updates are a rather new reality in detecting.  I fully believe an update has the possibility of going wrong. I myself experienced this with my first update of the Equinox 800. I thought someone broke my detector. Flashed back and did a new install and everything was fine! 

I do not think this is the norm. But is an issue that needs to be watched. I can fully understand how a detector may operate different on an update. But when it goes wrong like in the case of mine, it had nothing to do with new detector settings or modes. 
I highly recommend someone is very into their machine before doing any updates. Otherwise, how do you really know the differences of the update?  In July I opted not to update my Deus 2. I didn't think 4 or 5 times out with the machine after a layoff was enough time to be 100% up to speed and do an update. I will get that done when I am fully up to speed on the machine and can-do proper fringe depth testing after the update.   

[Digalicious]

On 10/28/2023 at 4:18 PM, DSMITH said:

 

I have seriously thought about downloading the 1.13 version and install it on one of my Legends just to see if it changes anything or jars something loose in the brain of my one of my older Legends just to see if it works any different

 

 

Trying 1.13 would make for an interesting test.

Any word on that yet?

[DSMITH]

39 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

Trying 1.13 would make for an interesting test.

Any word on that yet?

have not tried it yet still thinking about it

[DIG5050]

I would try the 1.13 update on one of the pods. Make sure you perform the factory reset after updating the firmware. This initializes settings and other variables for proper functioning of the update. See if it corrects the operation for that pod. 
 

If not, in lieu of the ability to remove a battery connection from the pod circuit board, one last suggestion would be to power on one control pod and let the battery go completely “dead”.  This should force a “hard reset” when battery is recharged. Fully recharge the pod and see if it resolves the problem. 

If none of these work,  then I support the suggestion above made by Jeff McC.  regarding Nokta warranty service. Perhaps you can use the Nokta loaner while yours are being serviced. 

If others are having this problem as you mentioned, then further investigation by Nokta is in order. It sounds like your problem may not be an isolated case.

Perhaps some kind of firmware-hardware incompatibility exists on some units. 

[bklein]

On 10/25/2023 at 8:05 PM, phrunt said:

Flash roms and EEPROMS that are used for this sort of thing are very reliable for data integrity.  I've got 15+ year old motherboards where the firmware on them is still holding as new, the same bios on there perfectly fine even though they're rarely if ever used.  There is little to worry about in regards to this.  If it were a problem our cars and everything would be playing up, their software is stored on the same stuff and has been for 10+ years 🙂 

 I worked over 25 years at Western Digital and over the years found instances where the programmable part - flash/eprom whatever - had bits that were not (re)programmed, which resulted in unpredictable behavior.  Basically situations where the full capacity was not programmed. In such cases the actual and intended areas differ and a CRC check is misleading as it is checking short of full capacity.

  

 

[phrunt]

1 hour ago, bklein said:

 

Wow, that's pretty pitiful, that could only be the fault of the flash tool you would think not checking and verifying every stage of the flash? Fortunately, it's extremely rate anyone had to update the firmware on the hard drives as an end user.    If the tool checked it, and found it differed it should have errored and reflashed.  Was this in the early days more so than more recently?  Surely they resolved it.

[bklein]

I was on early development teams for internal and external drives. I was a pain in the butt to firmware guys as I had a reputation for finding issues that got by our standard testing. It wasn’t the tool it was human programming errors. On a detector I’d think they would have a boot routine that should remain separate from normal code. If limits of either area incorrect it could happen.  I’d use heat, freeze spray, vibration of different types, and different supply voltages to find such problems.  With detectors I’d say power supply quality is a major concern.

[Jeff McClendon]

Nokta have bent over backwards to accommodate the Legend users that have reported depth loss and excessive chatter recently. They have even offered to have owners send their Legends directly to Istanbul for testing after previously requesting that owners make videos of the depth loss they are experiencing and the "chatter" that they are experiencing. So far, I have not seen any videos that have been posted recently on one of the Facebook Legend forums that definitively show any problems whatsoever. All I am seeing are poorly setup Legends with no hope of hitting the targets scenarios chosen. Or the Legends shown are actually detecting the targets but the results are being misinterpreted due to weird settings. There continue to also be videos of chatter which are just examples of EMI. Hopefully this gets straightened out.

[Jeff McClendon]

Here is a post from an experienced detectorist that was having extreme chatter issues with his Legend after doing the latest V1.11 software update. He seems to have solved his issue after getting some good advice. He recently posted a beach video of his Legends at the same location, at the same time showing two different Legends running the same settings with the V1.09 Legend running very quietly and the V 1.11 Legend chattering away with no possibility of detecting with it. Here is what he did:

Andy Williams said:

 

"I've had issues trying to update my legend with windows 11 from 1.09 upto 1.11 and 1.13, and back to 1.09 it's very chatty and unstable.

In the end, I opened up the update tool, plugged in the legend, found which USB port the legend was plugged into, then unplugged the legend and deleted the silicone lab driver from that USB port

Went onto silicone lab website and down loaded the latest USB driver and installed it to the selected USB port.

Rebooted laptop, ran update tool and reinstalled 1.09.

Factory reset done, went out for a test hunt at my local beach and it was not chatty anymore, I could run it at max sensitivity etc, managed to pull out 2 rings and a handful of coins in just an hour.

So, it could well be an end user issue after all.

Going to update to 1.13 and give it a go.

Wish me luck."

 

I hope this helps someone with a very chatty Legend.

 

Here is a link to a video posted by Nokta showing three different Legends including a customer's unit that was sent in for testing due to depth and excessive chatter issues that the customer was having with it. All three Legends are using factory default Park M1 and are being tested on a 22 cm (9") deep US quarter and 22 cm deep US nickel. The customer's Legend has not had its software updated by Nokta. It is just like it was when it was submitted for testing aside from its User 1 profile being factory reset for this test video.

 

https://www.facebook.com/759208030/videos/328070796685736/

 

Nokta have also released a video chat from Dilek today that addressed this video, a roughly 10% Legend price increase upcoming and the Score/Double Score are in many US and other countries dealer stock.

 

That was basically a cut the crap unless you really have an issue video.