X-coil Connection Update

[Condor]

Dave took 5 hrs out of his prospecting day to meet me and check my coil and Patch Lead.  It turns out the Patch Lead was faulty, Minelab Chip probably fried.  After talking with Dave, I probably used too much heat on the soldering iron and damaged the chip.  My philosophy of more power, faster results may have been misguided.  

Fortunately, I didn't sacrifice a $900.00 coil since I had already sacrificed the coil when I inadvertently drug it behind the Rokon for several miles.  So,  I sent my working coil off to have it professionally done for a new Patch Lead.  More delays, but a cautionary note to all considering this route.

Some interesting insight from Dave that might be helpful for those waiting for more testing.  Dave has a years worth of Anecdotal Evidence on the effectiveness of these X-Coils.  He shared some of his observations and it's quite impressive.  He's more than satisfied with the results but has no interest in engaging in internet claims, debate or justification.  The demand exceeds supply already.  

The coils are now available in the US, drop shipped from Russia and he's set up to accept PayPal.  They're produced in small batches, so a wait list is already starting.  

I believe Jasong is due to receive his coils soon, if he has not already.  I look forward to hearing what Jasong has to say after his own testing and observations.  

X Coil 2021 News

[Norvic]

On ya Condor, my eyes have been opened wide by these coils, their performance has just blown me away, Davsgold has naught to prove the X coils have done that for me. The Z with the ML 14 & 19 were mind blowing in performance but the X coils have made them redundant. The internet is full of individuals with agendas outside the performance that we seek, which is just  "get the gold", tis just the way of us huuuuumans, more static then the radio in a thunderstorm. I`m off with the 10"X coil tomorrow for a few hours at a close in patch, excited as a kid...…………..

[beatup]

Steve that's a bummer but as you said live and learn good luck to you and Dennis.

[flakmagnet]

Happy to hear things are working out for you guys. A tip of the hat to Dave for going out of his way to help…a wonderful reminder of what a lot of this hobby is about. 

I am still hoping to find someone stateside who is able to make a patch lead. I am a klutz with a soldering iron even if I did figure out how to follow the directions on how to make one.

And I too am looking forward to hearing Jason's observations.

 

[jasong]

Thanks for the update, I was following that closely. I only have 1 GPZ coil so I'm gonna have to get it right the first time... If someone has a beatup or dead coil (but with a good chip) that is going to no use and they want to offload for cheap, let me know.

Currently I'm working on two houses 1000 miles away from detecting areas for another few months. I'll do some comparison tests at home as I always do with new equipment, which I can share, but it's going to be some before I'm able to actually get into the field. I'll try to take a quick trip out somewhere after I finish the first house though, hopefully in 3 weeks or maybe 4. I'll only have a few days but I can run them over some well known patches that a lot of detecting veterans are familiar with here to get a baseline. I think I might take them to NV instead of AZ to see how they do on salt as I think from AUS reports that they will do ok in AZ already. Chances are good if anyone else here in the US has them on order they will get out to the field before I do though.

[Nevada Brian]

19 minutes ago, jasong said:

Thanks for the update, I was following that closely. I only have 1 GPZ coil so I'm gonna have to get it right the first time... If someone has a beatup or dead coil (but with a good chip) that is going to no use and they want to offload for cheap, let me know.

Currently I'm working on two houses 1000 miles away from detecting areas for another few months. I'll do some comparison tests at home as I always do with new equipment, which I can share, but it's going to be some before I'm able to actually get into the field. I'll try to take a quick trip out somewhere after I finish the first house though, hopefully in 3 weeks or maybe 4. I'll only have a few days but I can run them over some well known patches that a lot of detecting veterans are familiar with here to get a baseline. I think I might take them to NV instead of AZ to see how they do on salt as I think from AUS reports that they will do ok in AZ already. Chances are good if anyone else here in the US has them on order they will get out to the field before I do though.

Jasong, depending on which part of Nevada you decide to visit, and since you will no longer have a functional 14” coil, if need be, I can meet you in the field so comparable tests can be completed on undug targets.  I can bring my 7000 and 5000.

Also, thank you for the youtube videos, especially the USGS import to Google Earth, its fantastic and very helpful!

Brian.

[jasong]

Brian, the way I understand it is the 14 will still be usable since it'll have a new connector (sans security chip), it'll just require me to shut the machine off and switch coils. That said, it would be nice to have a second machine with the coil already connected nearby. I'm going to see how much of a hassle it is to keep switching coils when I do some initial testing at home, I will get in contact with you if it would be expeditious to have a 2nd person, thank you for offering. And thanks for the compliment on my vids! I will definitely try to film some stuff with these X Coils and I finally got some decent camera gear, so it will all be high definition and more watchable, my old camera was pretty bad.

[Jonathan Porter]

12 hours ago, Condor said:

...... Some interesting insight from Dave that might be helpful for those waiting for more testing.  Dave has a years worth of Anecdotal Evidence on the effectiveness of these X-Coils.  He shared some of his observations and it's quite impressive.  He's more than satisfied with the results but has no interest in engaging in internet claims, debate or justification.  The demand exceeds supply already. .............

 

 

Seeing how I’m the only one on the net that seems to actually be criticising the X coils I presume the distributor has no interest in publicly debating me on the subject for fear it might affect sales. Also it might cause too many awkward questions to start floating about on what I felt was the premature lead up to the coils becoming available for sale. So to put clarity on this subject and why I’ve been advising caution, this current thread is a good example of the whole reason why I got involved in the first place. 

Initially my involvement was based around curiosity, no strings attached just ‘Hey I’d love to take a look at one and give it a whirl’. This then lead to further conversations about the logistics of distribution and sales (after all I am in a retail business), the obvious issue was and always will be the coil connector. In my opinion to make this as problem free as possible there needed to be two things to happen, the coils needed to be as good or better than the standard coils (I’m talking electronically here, something that is extremely important when your dealing with complex technology like the GPZ) and secondly for me to be involved I needed to get Minelab on board to legally and consentually access their security tech. 

As people are aware I was able to procur a dongle so I could use the coils but as has already been shown this is easily circumvented by anyone willing to sacrifice a coil to do so. A meeting was then set up to try the coils although I would have preferred to just use them on my own using my own testing regimes in the privacy of my own surroundings. 

I found gold immediately so the coils did work, but there were inconsistencies between coils and modes, there was a Saturation problem, there was a coil lead shielding problem, there was an touch sensitivity problem and of course the major ‘sore thumb’ issue the continual ‘Loud’ noise on the Ferrite. What I found most amazing was none of these issues had been noticed (even privately) before I started testing the coils in spite of all the YouTube videos and forum promotion. 

My aim and involvement was initially two fold, as a business man I saw the potential of good market demand for this product as has been shown in recent months and secondly I am always curious and interested in anything pertaining to what I am most passionate about as is eveidenced by my metal detector and accessories collection. To this end I became involved in trying to have the coils improved to a level they might be acceptable so the most necessary part could be sourced to avoid the drama of customers having to hack into a functioning coil to circumvent a security chip. I worked long and hard on this subject and had many meetings, telephone conversations and swapping of emails.  It is a logistical nightmare expecting customers to hack a good coil so they can use another coil, how do you do the right thing by your customers if they have the issue of what this thread is about or worse blow their expensive $9500 metal detector? Maybe this is why the two major aftermarket coil manufacturers have kept well away from this area? Having a business model that throws the legality issue of the circumvention of a security chip onto the customer is a major negative in my book also. 

The coils did improve and changes were made during the period I was testing them, but not enough. Unfortunately some coils were sold prematurely and accessing the VITAL parts died along with it and the rest is history as is evidenced by people being forced to breach the security chip if they want to play. This is a business model I was never comfortable with especially on a larger scale but at the end of the day it wouldn’t have mattered because I was shut out anyway. I could be selling these coils if I had so chosen, I could have just gone about this quietly with the MANY people I know in this industry who were seeking more options, if I had done so I would NOT have left them holding the problem of procuring or modifying the chip and if it was deemed a no go by Minelab I would have ceased and desisted. My relationship with the Russian manufacturer is still very amicable BTW.

As the coils currently stand they still have the three major issues, Saturation noise, Touch sensitivity and the big BIGGY Ferrite noise (there could still be a coil lead shielding problem as I have not tested that recently). To not tell your customers of these problems even if it has NOT been shown by people reporting on the forums and social media is in my opinion dishonest. Remember I was incredulious the ‘Stick out like a sore thumb’ issues had not already been identified when I first tried the coils, but now they DO know. 

I understand the need, the BIG need, for GPZ users to have more choice with their detectors, this was the main driving forced behind my getting involved in the first place. I desperately wanted the GPZ to more option friendly when it came to weight and coil choices. I always expected flack if I dared to criticise the X coils for the many reasons that are obvious through my position in this industry and also my serious attempt at looking into an ethical working business model, at the end of the day I would like to think my actions have been cautionary and ethical. 

JP

  

 

 

 

[fredmason]

Jonathan;

Thank you for your input into a difficult issue.  I admire your integrity and courage for speaking out. You don't have to have agreement to speak your mind. 

I like many wish for a smaller coil as I am not the he-man of yesteryear...However, I don't care to risk my 8000 dollar detector for a smaller, lighter coil...

So, I thank you for keeping the conversation semi-balanced...(apparently you against them)...in a respectful and civil kind of way.

fred

[jasong]

You aren't the only one JP, look at my posting history and you'll see I've asked every tough question about the X Coils I could think of asking even if it ruffles feathers, for a month ongoing now. And I'm buying my own coils in order to answer the questions people are not interested in answering for me.

I also mentioned the business model in a post a few days ago. And I've pointed out a number of times that the only real conclusion here with the silence from ML and other companies is what I think you are also hinting at yet contractually unable to say: ML themselves or another 3rd party ARE working on a range of legit licensed coils and this Russian company put their coils out quickly before proper testing in order to make money before the legit coils were released. Feel free to correct me here if I've read between the lines too deeply and come to a wrong conclusion. I think I'm probably on the right track though and I don't like that I'm probably going to cut my coil just to find this out for certain down the line when I wouldn't have had to do it if I waited, but c'est la vie.

I'll be more than happy to test some of these concerns and put them on video. The saturable soil thing is going to be an issue though as most the ground I work is probably as mild as it is in NZ. But i do have a yellow ferrite to test on. But if there is anything in specific you think needs to be tested, tell me how you think it should be tested here and I have no problems putting it on video.

If you think it's not getting enough exposure, this is a good chance to change that. I have some 4 millions views using Minelab products and if just include the keywords "GPZ 7000" in a video it will usually find it's way to the front page of Youtube search on the GPZ for a while, sometimes Google too. I'll post here too which also get a lot of exposure.