Running The 15" Cc X Coil Over A 6000 Patch

[phrunt]

7 hours ago, Northeast said:

Which makes me wonder even more, why are the new ones double the price?  

Because they have to be Minelab approved, that means they're buying a "license" off Minelab to make coils for the detector which involves Minelab supplying them the chips, is anything Minelab sells cheap? ?

They also had to get each coil model approved which by the sounds of it involves Minelab testing the coil model to see if they are up to their standards or I think fit with what they want the detector to be able to do, and not do keeping their detector models far enough apart to justify someone having to buy the other model too.

All of this adds to the cost of the coils.

Other than it being the newest model detector and there will be a bigger demand for coils so they can charge what they want and they're still significantly cheaper than GPZ coils, although there is a big difference in the difficulty of making the GPZ coils and the time and skill required to do so.

Every one of these 6000 coils we buy we're giving some of that money to Minelab, they can't lose like they did with the earlier GPX model with the freedom of anyone to make coils for it, Minelab probably thought more people would buy their Commander coil range than actually did, people were too busy buying the aftermarket brands so the obvious solution is to restrict this, and make some money selling the license to make coils.

I don't think the prices are unreasonable but people are likely to buy less coils than they would have if they were cheaper.

[jasong]

Dug one last one out of my old phone. This was a 3.5 grammer that I think was around 18"-20" deep after I stood back and compared the hole to the diameter of the coil. I was positive it was going to be a 1/2oz or even 1 oz'er after I got below about 15" or 16" deep. I was pretty surprised when it was just a little 3 grammer. I didn't think it was even possible to hit something that small, that deep.

I thought for sure it was going to be a nice big lump that I didn't want to damage, so I stopped hacking a wide hole with my pick, got on my stomach, and started digging a smaller hole within the hole using my screwdriver and pinpointer. I'm a 6ft tall guy and this one was near the extent of what I could keep digging with my arm while on my stomach. Once the pointer got a signal near the bottom of the smaller hole I was making, I moved layer by layer away until I saw the glint of gold since I wanted to know exactly where the nugget was, and not risk digging past it and having it fall back in the hole and making me think it was deeper than it was. What you see is exactly where it was when I detected it on surface. 

This was with the 17" CC X Coil and was the first day I tried it out. This is a tiny spot that has been heavily worked by 2 GPZ's plus me on the 17" Spiral, and there were no signals at all left, not even a whisper. This nugget was a quiet, but easily noticable signal for me with the 17" CC though. I also got a 3/4g at 10" or so, and a 1.5g at what I seriously think was something like 14-15". 

Not the greatest vid, but again it was just mostly for personal record and wasn't planning on posting. I also can't show the horizon where the detector sits because this one is close enough to recognizable features that I don't want to lose yet another testing spot to the ticks and leeches that like hunting my spots down.

The nugget is at the tip of the screwdriver in this photo here for those who don't want to watch the short vid. That is a full size Harbor Freight flathead screwdriver for size reference - the hole was a crater to get down that deep. There are definitely spots in Arizona that deep gold is still lurking...

 

[Jonathan Porter]

Opinions are like backsides, we all have one.? There are a lot of incorrect comments here on this thread but as usual I'm gagged because defending Minelab is not the done thing and also I'm not at liberty anyway.

However I'm going to have my say because being in quarantine from having contracted Covid I'm feeling a bit fierce and fed up, so stuff it!!!?The GPX 6000 represents a huge change electronically compared to the 7000 which is understandable with the age differences in the designs and how fast electronics have moved forward in that time, read into that what you will with regards crypto in the coils. Hint: it's not just a security measure. ?

All the complaints about coil options for the 7000 especially the smaller coil options are based around one individuals continious bombardment of this forum about a coil that is not even available through that avenue, but still ML get bagged out for it. ?

We right now are on the cusp of everyones wish list where not one but two non-OEM coil manufacturers have announced they will be offering a range of coils that are unique to their marque, so in essence there will soon be 6 new coil sizes to choose from to suit the GPX6000, that fact alone speaks volumes about Minelab's willingness to keep the party faithful happy. There are also more officially sanctioned coils in the works for the GPZ7000 so owners of that tech can have something to look forward to as well.

Sure we can sit here and look back in time and keep on pointing out past mistakes even though none of us truly know the facts behind them, but constant berration won't change a thing and TBH I'm heartily sick of them, in the 'here and now' there is plenty of evidence that positive things are happening with scope for more changes in the future, that's an exciting thing in my book.☺️

OK, I'll sit back now and watch the slings and arrows come out because I dared defend Minelab yet again. ?

JP

 

[Steve Herschbach]

I could care less about any excuses or defense Minelab may care to muster. I want what I want as an end user, and Minelab can either listen, or just tell me to pound sand. Which is the general feeling I get, when anything approaching a complaint is belittled. They are a major corporation, not a little puppy that needs protection from meanies. If they have a lick of sense, they would be grateful for, and listen hard to customer perceptions as a reality, like it or not. Anyway, I’ve had my say, and have zero need or desire to argue or defend it. It’s my genuine feelings about the matter, take it or leave it for that.

[Jonathan Porter]

As always Steve I respect your position and of course I completely understand where you are coming from, so no direct argument from me. However it would be a very boring forum if is was all Minelab bashing and no opposing POV would it not?

I'm not defending ML at all costs, as said they are a very big emotionless corporate company who are big enough to take a few, some times well deserved, hits on the chin. In this case however ML have lately shown they are listening with allowances made very early on for manufacture of non-OEM coils to enter the fray, surely that speaks volumes for such a large entity that is historicaly slow to make changes? Sure it's not exactly what you or others want or would like, but to me it is massive and very encouraging.

No wish for an argument just a bit gun shy that I'll get hammered because my opinion goes against the majority.

As always with respect
JP

[Steve Herschbach]

No worries JP, we are besties, and it's all just blah blah blah anyway. I'm more concerned about my new tomato plants than metal detecting at the moment anyway, so barely paying any attention to any of this. More like drop an opinion bomb, move on.

I will say in closing however that I love the fact that we are not going the 7000 route as far as coils with the 6000, with a whole bunch of much more affordable options ready to hit the market any moment. So kudos to Minelab on that, for sure.

You indeed have my respect also, best host a bloke ever had in Oz, bar none, and an even better detectorist!

My Friend Jonathan Porter

[Jonathan Porter]

And that there folks is testament to why I hang on this forum, the moderator is a decent person who allows everyone to voice their opinion even if it does not concur with his. Nothing but respect for Steve Herschbach. ?

[Aureous]

7 hours ago, Norvic said:

As stated previously I hope X coil can give us coils for MLs magic 6K in particular a small CC.

As previously stated elsewhere, the Russkistanis are NOT continuing to make 6000 coils coz the difficulty in extracting the chip and  building the adapters is proving a big headache....sometimes its easy, sometimes its a clusterf%&k. Not worth  the hassle, gambling with someone else's coil. 

[jasong]

Hate to say it but even though they are great on a GPZ, sounds like CC's just won't offer as much performance gain on PI's using monos already as they do on the GPZ when compared with using the DOD. Talking to/reading Simon (who I assume is getting some info from X Coils guys), Chet, and others I think I have a rough idea why this is the case, but I make no assertions as to the accuracy of my rough understanding.

A PI using a mono has both a large RX and TX loop already (same loop), it's kinda maximized depth for a given size coil already. Sounds like the CC's have advantage over the DOD's because the windings are different sizes and in the case of a CC, one of the lobes (I can't even remember which is which now, TX or RX) is larger than it would be on a DOD, which is one reason why depth is increased. And some more stuff having to do with winding coupling, distances, etc that are a bit beyond my understanding. But compared to detectors already running monos that by nature already have both RX and TX loops maximized for a given size (since they are the same loop), the CC's are going to have either the RX or TX lobe (again I forget which) be smaller, so performance gains may not be as large.

That doesn't mean there might not still be room for some clever coil design on 6000 coils though. Obvious one being if the aftermarket coils are not (apparantly?) using flat windings. Which, after all the talk, we still have no clear answer on and are left guessing (and will surely get our wrists slapped for venturing such guesses).

3 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

And that there folks is testament to why I hang on this forum, the moderator is a decent person who allows everyone to voice their opinion even if it does not concur with his. Nothing but respect for Steve Herschbach. ?

Good sentiment and I'm sure you'll rake the likes in since no one out there disagrees. But you might want to tone down the calling us "bitchers" and telling us our opinions are like an ass (presume yours are golden though?) if you want a better reception from people. No one attacked you, no one even mentioned your name. No need to come in hot and look for a fight. Just because we don't have an inside line to Bruce Candy or Minelab engineers doesn't mean we aren't allowed to talk about things we find interesting. And yes - that means guessing at some things that involve information we'd love to learn, but simply are not priivy too. Doesn't mean the topic is off limits to discuss.